Julieanna's Soapbox

writing about whatever strikes my fancy

  • Home
  • Honda Problems
  • About Me
    • Motorcycling
  • Blog
  • Travel
    • Colorado
    • NYC
      • Central Park
    • Tennessee
      • Gatlinburg & Pigeon Forge
      • Morristown
    • World on Wheels
      • 4-Corners
      • Wild West
  • House
    • Kitchen

Honda TSB 16-012 Engine Rattles at Cold Startup

01.23.2019 by Jules // Leave a Comment

2015 Honda Crosstour Engine Rattles at Cold Startup
Image of 2015 Honda Crosstour
2012-2015 Honda Crosstour’s Effected by Defective VTC Actuator

2012 – 2015 Honda Crosstour’s VTC Actuator Defect

If you own a 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2015 Honda Crosstour, you’re most likely affected by the “engine rattles at cold startup” defective VTC actuator problem.

Crosstour Years Affected:

  • 2012 Honda Crosstour 2WD (ALL as listed on TSB 09-010)
  • 2013 Honda Crosstour 2WD (Check VIN as listed on TSB 09-010 & 06-012)
  • 2014 Honda Crosstour 2WD (ALL as listed on TSB 06-012)
  • 2015 Honda Crosstour 2WD (ALL as listed on TSB 06-012)

Almost identical to Honda TSB 09-010 is TSB 16-012. The difference between the two TSB’s appears to be the addition of the sentence, (in reference to the cold rattle at startup), “This may be intermittent and occurs when the outside temperature is below 40° F”.   However, note TSB 06-012 includes all 2WD 2014-2015 Crosstours, while TSB 09-010 only references 2012-2013.

TSB 06-012

Image from Honda TSB 06-012 listing vehicles affected by "engine rattles at cold startup".  Includes Honda CR-Vs and Crosstours.

TSB 09-010

Image from Honda TSB 09-010 of list of vehicles affected by "engine rattles at cold start-up" problem.

Interestingly enough, the Honda Crosstour wasn’t included in Honda’s initial TSB 09-010; only the Honda Accord and CR-V were listed. However, the 3rd and 4th versions of TSB 09-010 released in March 2016, had the Crosstour listed.

Why 2 different TSB’s for the same problem?

This truly has me stumped. While the exact same part number for the VTC actuator listed as failing on both TSB’s is the same, (14310-R44-A01), and the replacement part number, (143-R5A-305), is also identical on both TSB 09-010 and 16-012, apparently the defective VTC actuator will give you more trouble (?) if you live in a colder climate. At first I thought the part numbers would be different for the VTC actuator in a Crosstour vs. a CR-V. However, as all part numbers are the same, this isn’t the reason for the temperature qualification. Also, as my car has spent the majority of it’s life in San Antonio, I can attest to the fact that my Accord would ALWAYS grind/rattle at startup if the engine was cold, (prior to repair), even on days that were over 100° F.

An article written December 2015 entitled, “Engine Rattles After Cold Soak Startup“, includes Accords, Crosstours and CR-V’s. In the same letter, Honda states:

We’re currently working on a solution, but have no recommended dealer repair at this time.

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. December 2015 (source)

As the biggest difference in vehicles listed between the two TSB’s is the addition of all 2WD 2014-2015 Crosstours, if you’re a Crosstour/Honda owner and have any idea as to why this is so, please post your thoughts below. It was noticeable that all Accords were removed from TSB 06-012.

If you’re looking for ways to save money on your VTC actuator replacement, my eReport might help you out! It includes the latest TSB’s in a searchable, easy downloadable, (PDF), 81 page report for only $7.97. (No, it’s not 81 pages of heavy reading, I’ve just included the current TSB’s for your convenience).

TSB’s referenced:

  • TSB 09-010 “Engine Rattles at Cold Start-Up” (v5 dated February 2017)
  • TSB 06-012 “Engine Rattles at Cold Start-Up” (v2 dated February 2017)
  • TSB 12-087 “Sticking Rings Resulting in High Engine Oil Consumption” (v7 dated January 2018)

Read my original post here.

Image of cover to Honda eReport. Click to download.
Download my Honda eReport
Button that links to page where Honda eReport can be purchased.
ONLY $7.97

Please join in on conversations/post comments below as this helps other Honda owners.

Here’s wishing you all the best in your endeavors to get your car repaired for low or no cost!

Categories // Honda Tags // engine rattles at cold startup, Honda TSB 16-012, vtc actuator

Engine Rattles On Cold Startup TSB 09-010

03.05.2018 by Jules // 1 Comment

Honda Accords, CR-Vs, and Crosstours all affected by VTC actuator problem

All 2008-2012 Honda Accords (L4), all 2007-2012 Honda CR-Vs*, some 2013 CRV’s, (check VIN), all 2014 CR-Vs 2WD and 4WD, and 2012-2015 Crosstours, (check VIN),  are affected by the “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” problem.

2012 Honda Crosstour
Tap photo to read more about which Crosstours are affected.

Engine Rattles at Cold Startup TSB 09-010

Symptom:  At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about 2 seconds.

I continue to be amazed at the amount of Honda owners who search, read and comment on my original VTC Actuator Problem post.  This problem, (“Engine Rattles at Cold Startup”/VTC Actuator), affected all 2008-2012 Honda Accords (2.4L 4-cylinder engine) as well as 2007-2014 Honda CR-Vs and all 2WD 2012-2015 Honda Crosstours. (If you own a 2013 Honda CR-V or Crosstour, check the VIN).    *Note: the 2014 TSB 09-010 included all 2007-2012 CR-Vs, whereas TSB 06-012 includes 2013-2014 CR-Vs.

Chart below denotes vehicles affected as shown in current TSB 09-010 dated February 25th, 2017.  My eReport has the latest TSB 09-010 v5 updated February 2017, TSB 06-012 v2 updated February 2017, as well as TSB 12-087 v7 updated January 2018.

Honda Vehicles Affected by "Engine Rattles at Cold Startup" ProblemHonda Vehicles Affected by “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” Problem (Chart above from 2016 TSB #09-010) *Previous TSB listed all 2007-2012 CR-V’s as affected

Engine Rattles at Cold Startup TSB 16-012

Symptom:  At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about 2 seconds.  This may be intermittent and occurs when the outside temperature is below 40° F.

Honda TSB 06-012
Honda TSB 06-012 “Engine Rattles at Cold Start-Up”  (My eReport includes most recent TSB dated 2/23/2017 version 2)

If you own any of the above referenced Accords, CR-Vs, or Crosstours, it’s imperative that you fix your VTC actuator* if you want to avoid catastrophic engine failure. If you’re still wondering if your car has a VTC actuator problem, see my original post here: https://goo.gl/ULvPGP. I understand fellow Honda owners feeling frustrated that Honda hasn’t issued a recall for a manufacturer’s defect that they knew existed at the time affected vehicles were sold .  I felt and feel the same way.  Of course, it would be expensive for Honda to recall all vehicles affected; maybe even catastrophic for them. To make a bad situation worse, there appears to be a strong correlation between the “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” and “Sticking Piston Rings Resulting in Unusually High Engine Oil Consumption” (TSB 12-087 and TSB 12-089).  Note:  American Honda has extended the warranty in TSB 12-089 version 9, updated April 2019.  (You will have to have the software update completed in order to validate extended warranty).

American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the Piston Rings and Pistons for 2010-11 CR-V 2WD and 4WD to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

American Honda; TSB 12-089 , Version 9 (updated April 2019)

This is the letter I received from Honda dated September 2011.  (Correlates with TSB 11-049)
Original Letter From Honda Dated September 2011

The 2008, 2009, and 2010 Honda Accord vehicles (the “Class Vehicles”) suffer from a systemic design defect that enables oil to enter into the engine’s combustion chamber. This defect is present when the vehicles are sold and manifests prior to the expiration of several warranty periods, causing excessive oil consumption, premature spark plug degradation, and engine malfunction.

Honda CR-V VTC Actuator and High Oil Consumption Problems Reported
Honda’s VTC Actuator Problems Contribute to High Oil Consumption

In 2012, a class action lawsuit was filed against Honda.  The lawsuit included affected certain versions of the 2008-2011 Honda Accord coupe and sedan and  2010-2011 Honda CR-V.  I received this letter from Honda in August 2015 stating they were extending their warranty of the engine pistons and piston rings to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever occurred first.  Although this was not mentioned in their letter, one of the causes of the high engine oil consumption as listed in the lawsuit, is a faulty VTC actuator. I have put together a comprehensive report covering this, giving you access to current TSB 09-010, dated February 25th, 2017. (Always check with your local Honda dealer for new/updated TSBs).

Sticking Rings Resulting in Unusually High Engine Oil Consumption TSB 12-087

Honda has found that certain versions of the four-cylinder 2008 to 2011 Accord coupe and sedan and the 2010 to 2011 CR-V SUV may begin to experience higher than normal oil consumption…. ~ Consumer Reports¹

See a copy of the class action lawsuit brought against American Honda.  Note on page 1 the mention of possible causal factor number 4:

Alternatively, the defect may stem from a flaw in Honda’s VTEC variable engine-timing system that improperly allows oil to flow into the engine’s combustion chamber.

American Honda settled the class-action lawsuit in March 2014.  Honda also extended warranties, (residents of Washington State), on certain Honda Accords and CR-V’s.  Although this extension has expired, (8 years past the date of purchase or lease), it’s still a good idea to mention it as well as all TSB’s.  (Accord owners can cite Honda Service Bulletin 12-087, CR-V owners reference 12-089).  If you owned your Honda Accord or CR-V in 2015, you should have received this letter from American Honda. I’ve put together a report that includes all 09-010 TSB’s, including the most recent one dated February 25, 2017 as well as TSB 12-087 dated January 31st, 2018. My report will help you negotiate the best price for your VTC actuator repair or, if you’re a do-it-yourselfer, the complete parts list, (as listed on latest TSB’s), and how to make the repair(s). Keep in mind that Honda issues the following disclaimer on all TSB’s:

Disclaimer issued by Honda warning that the information contained in all technical service bulletins is for certified Honda repair professionals

I’ve also included information on how to use TSB’s, recalls and customer complaints  to negotiate the best no or low cost repair with Honda even if your vehicle is out of warranty.

Download Your eReport

Here’s wishing you a happy resolution! Feel free to contact me anytime!

Understanding what Variable Valve Timing Is

How To Get Your Car Fixed For (Almost) Free

Do your research and find/print out all TSB’s, recalls, and even customer complaints you find on-line to use in negotiating a no or low cost repair for your vehicle.  Also, use this handy, on-line car repair estimator tool from Consumer Reports to get a location-based estimate for any repairs.

Just because a technical service bulletin has been issued doesn’t mean that a recall has been issued, however, if a TSB has been issued, quite often you can use this in repair cost negotiations.

 Tap here for a great article from Consumer Reports highlighting the benefits of obtaining relevant TSBs to use in understanding and negotiating the best no or low repair cost. American Honda Contact Information By Phone:  1-800-999-1009 By Fax:  1-310-783-3023 (24 hours) By Mail: American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Honda Automobile Customer Service 1919 Torrance Boulevard Mail Stop: 500 – 2N – 7A Torrance, CA 90501-2746 Via Twitter:  @HondaCustSvc Customers Outside the US Honda Canada Customer Service:  (888) 946-6329 Honda Motor Europe LTD. TOLL-FREE:  01753 590590 Honda de Mexico Servicio a Clientes:  01 800 368 8500 Locate a Dealer:  https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/dealership-locator 



*Note: Honda has listed original replacement part #14310-R44-A01 as “failed”.The new replacement part number is 14310-R5A-305.

Sources: ¹Evarts, Eric. “Honda Accord, CR-V Warranties Extended for Excess Oil Consumption.” Honda Accord, CR-V Warranties Extended for Excess Oil Consumption – Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports, 18 May 2015. Web. 06 May 2017.

Categories // Honda, Sticky Tags // 2007-2012 Honda CR-V, 2008-2012 Honda Accord, 2012 Honda Crosstour VTC Actuator problem, 2013 Honda Crosstour VTC Actuator Problem, engine rattles at cold startup, Honda 14310-R5A-305 VTC Actuator, Honda TSB 09-010, Honda TSB 12-087, Honda TSB 16-012, TSB 09-010, vtc actuator, VTC actuator problem

  • 1
  • 2
  • Next Page »

Search

Tags

09-010 2008 Honda Accord 2014 Honda Accord Accord Arlo Guthrie Audubon baking banjo birding birds brownies business cat chocolate customer centric customer service emotions engine rattles at cold startup eyes facebook food fresh water Great Blue Heron Honda Honda Service Bulletin #09-010 Honda TSB 16-012 humor inspiration invasion life Lilly mind control motivation motorcycles music national cat day psychology Recipes security service bulletin 09-010 Texas The Motorcycle Song value vtc actuator VTC actuator problem

#ShoshoneNationalForest #Wyoming

A post shared by No Boxes (@noboxes) on Feb 5, 2015 at 6:07pm PST

Follow me on Twitter

My Tweets

©Copyright 2014-2023 Julieanna Cline | Legal | Privacy | Accessibility | Contact Me


I installed a Let’s Encrypt" certificate on julieannacline.com. Let’s Encrypt is a trademark of the Internet Security Research Group. All rights reserved.

 

Loading Comments...