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More Honda Problems

12.09.2018 by Jules // 1 Comment

More Honda Questions

Can you help answer these questions? Click on the question to read & leave answers below.

I continue to get questions regarding Honda’s TSB 09-010, “Engine rattles at cold startup”.  If other’s would like to weigh-in with answers/help, I’m sure fellow Honda owners would appreciate it!  Please leave your answers below. Thanks so much! (Click on the question/box below to read full question and answer under “Leave a Comment/Reply”).

Please help answer these questions:

2013 Honda Accord Question

I own a 2013 Honda Accord Sport and it has that rattle on start ups and is now consuming oil. Before I get to the 5000 miles it will be more then 3 quarts low. Which means my oil light is coming on when I stop at a light or stop sign. I have taken my car to Spreen Honda where I serviced the car since I bought it. They said it could be my VTC accuator. Does that fit with the 2008-2012 Honda Accords problems? ~Steve Whittaker

2007 Honda Civic Question

Hi there, I’m having the same issue with the cold start up as well in my 2007 Honda Civic si as well but I don’t see any tsb for it just for the accords and crvs please help! It’s definitely the same issue for my car .~Michael Camacho

2012 & 2014 Honda CR-V Question

I currently own a 2012 and 2014 CR-V both are AWD and purchased new. Both have been taken to dealerships for routine maintenance as needed per their respective Maintenance Minder. The 2014 has had the VTC actuator rattle since almost new. U notified the dealer promptly ad was told they either couldn't replicate or it was "normal" and needed no correction. At about 90k the oil indicator came on and it was due to low oil - 2 quarts. Now drinks about a quart every 2,500 mi. Today my wife called to let me know that her VSA, EPS, and malfunction indicator lamp came in simultaneously in the 2012. She has about 52k miles on that one. She has reported infrequent rattle but still some. Come to find out that she was also 2 quarts low. Neither of us had been notified by the dealer of prior low oil levels or consumption issues prior to the indicator lights. Dealer's resolution is to have oil changed every 3-5k miles. Or, have the piston rings cleaned/replaced at a cost of $1,600 each and that may not correct the HTC rattle. I have driven Hondas for the last 14 years because of their reliability and low cost to own. Now I'm staring at huge bills that may not correct the problem. Thoughts on what we can do to help the cause to get this more attention? We're a little lost and irritated. Would appreciate any help. Thank you! ~Nicholas Felder 

VTC Actuator & High Oil Consumption Help Request

Question:

I have 2010 Honda CRV . Issues with my car started to rattle brought to Honda and they do fix the VCT actuator. After a year it started to rattle again. 2nd issue; high oil consumption. Recived a letter from American Honda as well. Honda did the test and they said that the car doesn't have issues with oil consumption, it was a bad test, so I asked them to repeat the test. We just did the oil change then, now it's 970 miles and there's only 30% oil left which means that 1000 miles car consumed almost 3 quarts of oil. Please help me.  ~ Joel Dineros 

Answer:

Hi Joel,

I've just recently discovered an updated TSB 12-089 which covers high oil consumption in 2010 and 2011 CR-V's. It extends the previous warranty as stated:

American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the Piston Rings and Pistons for 2010-11 CR-V 2WD and 4WD to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

American Honda; TSB 12-089 , Version 9

Sounds to me like your Honda dealer isn't being honest when they're telling you your CR-V doesn't have a problem. Can you try a different dealership? You can always call American Honda and ask which dealership they would recommend. Be sure you take notes/keep records of all of your conversations for future reference.

I hope this helps!

~Julieanna

If you can help, please leave your response below. Thank-you!

Categories // Honda Tags // 2010 Honda CR-V, 2011 Honda CR-V, Honda, Honda Service Bulletin #09-010, TSB 12-089, VTC actuator problem

Engine Rattles On Cold Startup TSB 09-010

03.05.2018 by Jules // 1 Comment

Honda Accords, CR-Vs, and Crosstours all affected by VTC actuator problem

All 2008-2012 Honda Accords (L4), all 2007-2012 Honda CR-Vs*, some 2013 CRV’s, (check VIN), all 2014 CR-Vs 2WD and 4WD, and 2012-2015 Crosstours, (check VIN),  are affected by the “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” problem.

2012 Honda Crosstour
Tap photo to read more about which Crosstours are affected.

Engine Rattles at Cold Startup TSB 09-010

Symptom:  At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about 2 seconds.

I continue to be amazed at the amount of Honda owners who search, read and comment on my original VTC Actuator Problem post.  This problem, (“Engine Rattles at Cold Startup”/VTC Actuator), affected all 2008-2012 Honda Accords (2.4L 4-cylinder engine) as well as 2007-2014 Honda CR-Vs and all 2WD 2012-2015 Honda Crosstours. (If you own a 2013 Honda CR-V or Crosstour, check the VIN).    *Note: the 2014 TSB 09-010 included all 2007-2012 CR-Vs, whereas TSB 06-012 includes 2013-2014 CR-Vs.

Chart below denotes vehicles affected as shown in current TSB 09-010 dated February 25th, 2017.  My eReport has the latest TSB 09-010 v5 updated February 2017, TSB 06-012 v2 updated February 2017, as well as TSB 12-087 v7 updated January 2018.

Honda Vehicles Affected by "Engine Rattles at Cold Startup" ProblemHonda Vehicles Affected by “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” Problem (Chart above from 2016 TSB #09-010) *Previous TSB listed all 2007-2012 CR-V’s as affected

Engine Rattles at Cold Startup TSB 16-012

Symptom:  At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about 2 seconds.  This may be intermittent and occurs when the outside temperature is below 40° F.

Honda TSB 06-012
Honda TSB 06-012 “Engine Rattles at Cold Start-Up”  (My eReport includes most recent TSB dated 2/23/2017 version 2)

If you own any of the above referenced Accords, CR-Vs, or Crosstours, it’s imperative that you fix your VTC actuator* if you want to avoid catastrophic engine failure. If you’re still wondering if your car has a VTC actuator problem, see my original post here: https://goo.gl/ULvPGP. I understand fellow Honda owners feeling frustrated that Honda hasn’t issued a recall for a manufacturer’s defect that they knew existed at the time affected vehicles were sold .  I felt and feel the same way.  Of course, it would be expensive for Honda to recall all vehicles affected; maybe even catastrophic for them. To make a bad situation worse, there appears to be a strong correlation between the “Engine Rattles at Cold Startup” and “Sticking Piston Rings Resulting in Unusually High Engine Oil Consumption” (TSB 12-087 and TSB 12-089).  Note:  American Honda has extended the warranty in TSB 12-089 version 9, updated April 2019.  (You will have to have the software update completed in order to validate extended warranty).

American Honda is extending the warranty coverage on the Piston Rings and Pistons for 2010-11 CR-V 2WD and 4WD to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first.

American Honda; TSB 12-089 , Version 9 (updated April 2019)

This is the letter I received from Honda dated September 2011.  (Correlates with TSB 11-049)
Original Letter From Honda Dated September 2011

The 2008, 2009, and 2010 Honda Accord vehicles (the “Class Vehicles”) suffer from a systemic design defect that enables oil to enter into the engine’s combustion chamber. This defect is present when the vehicles are sold and manifests prior to the expiration of several warranty periods, causing excessive oil consumption, premature spark plug degradation, and engine malfunction.

Honda CR-V VTC Actuator and High Oil Consumption Problems Reported
Honda’s VTC Actuator Problems Contribute to High Oil Consumption

In 2012, a class action lawsuit was filed against Honda.  The lawsuit included affected certain versions of the 2008-2011 Honda Accord coupe and sedan and  2010-2011 Honda CR-V.  I received this letter from Honda in August 2015 stating they were extending their warranty of the engine pistons and piston rings to 8 years from the original date of purchase or 125,000 miles, whichever occurred first.  Although this was not mentioned in their letter, one of the causes of the high engine oil consumption as listed in the lawsuit, is a faulty VTC actuator. I have put together a comprehensive report covering this, giving you access to current TSB 09-010, dated February 25th, 2017. (Always check with your local Honda dealer for new/updated TSBs).

Sticking Rings Resulting in Unusually High Engine Oil Consumption TSB 12-087

Honda has found that certain versions of the four-cylinder 2008 to 2011 Accord coupe and sedan and the 2010 to 2011 CR-V SUV may begin to experience higher than normal oil consumption…. ~ Consumer Reports¹

See a copy of the class action lawsuit brought against American Honda.  Note on page 1 the mention of possible causal factor number 4:

Alternatively, the defect may stem from a flaw in Honda’s VTEC variable engine-timing system that improperly allows oil to flow into the engine’s combustion chamber.

American Honda settled the class-action lawsuit in March 2014.  Honda also extended warranties, (residents of Washington State), on certain Honda Accords and CR-V’s.  Although this extension has expired, (8 years past the date of purchase or lease), it’s still a good idea to mention it as well as all TSB’s.  (Accord owners can cite Honda Service Bulletin 12-087, CR-V owners reference 12-089).  If you owned your Honda Accord or CR-V in 2015, you should have received this letter from American Honda. I’ve put together a report that includes all 09-010 TSB’s, including the most recent one dated February 25, 2017 as well as TSB 12-087 dated January 31st, 2018. My report will help you negotiate the best price for your VTC actuator repair or, if you’re a do-it-yourselfer, the complete parts list, (as listed on latest TSB’s), and how to make the repair(s). Keep in mind that Honda issues the following disclaimer on all TSB’s:

Disclaimer issued by Honda warning that the information contained in all technical service bulletins is for certified Honda repair professionals

I’ve also included information on how to use TSB’s, recalls and customer complaints  to negotiate the best no or low cost repair with Honda even if your vehicle is out of warranty.

Download Your eReport

Here’s wishing you a happy resolution! Feel free to contact me anytime!

Understanding what Variable Valve Timing Is

How To Get Your Car Fixed For (Almost) Free

Do your research and find/print out all TSB’s, recalls, and even customer complaints you find on-line to use in negotiating a no or low cost repair for your vehicle.  Also, use this handy, on-line car repair estimator tool from Consumer Reports to get a location-based estimate for any repairs.

Just because a technical service bulletin has been issued doesn’t mean that a recall has been issued, however, if a TSB has been issued, quite often you can use this in repair cost negotiations.

 Tap here for a great article from Consumer Reports highlighting the benefits of obtaining relevant TSBs to use in understanding and negotiating the best no or low repair cost. American Honda Contact Information By Phone:  1-800-999-1009 By Fax:  1-310-783-3023 (24 hours) By Mail: American Honda Motor Co., Inc. Honda Automobile Customer Service 1919 Torrance Boulevard Mail Stop: 500 – 2N – 7A Torrance, CA 90501-2746 Via Twitter:  @HondaCustSvc Customers Outside the US Honda Canada Customer Service:  (888) 946-6329 Honda Motor Europe LTD. TOLL-FREE:  01753 590590 Honda de Mexico Servicio a Clientes:  01 800 368 8500 Locate a Dealer:  https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/dealership-locator 



*Note: Honda has listed original replacement part #14310-R44-A01 as “failed”.The new replacement part number is 14310-R5A-305.

Sources: ¹Evarts, Eric. “Honda Accord, CR-V Warranties Extended for Excess Oil Consumption.” Honda Accord, CR-V Warranties Extended for Excess Oil Consumption – Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports, 18 May 2015. Web. 06 May 2017.

Categories // Honda, Sticky Tags // 2007-2012 Honda CR-V, 2008-2012 Honda Accord, 2012 Honda Crosstour VTC Actuator problem, 2013 Honda Crosstour VTC Actuator Problem, engine rattles at cold startup, Honda 14310-R5A-305 VTC Actuator, Honda TSB 09-010, Honda TSB 12-087, Honda TSB 16-012, TSB 09-010, vtc actuator, VTC actuator problem

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